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	<title>Comments on: Where are All the Senior Developers in India?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/</link>
	<description>Basab Pradhan's weblog about business and life in a 'flat world'.  6 AM Pacific is the best time for a global conference call.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 01:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Amit`</title>
		<link>http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-7758</link>
		<dc:creator>Amit`</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-7758</guid>
		<description>Hi 

I fully support Basab's observations. I have 8+ years of experience ( 5.5 with one of the SWITCH ( Satyam,Wipro,Infy,TCS,Cognizant,HCL)  and 3 with an MNC. In SWITCH when I was a fresher our leads with 3+ years of experience were asked to do "management" not "coding" - it is a different story that those clowns were absolutely inept. In fact we asked our Lead to help with coding and he baltanly refused to help us out. So - the entire project was coded by freshers - and this reflected on the quality of the deliverables.
In MNC - my team of 20 had 1 Lead with 6+ years and 1f freshers. Again the quality of the deliverables suffered. 
But things were better than SWITCH and technical competency was appreciated. Now I am in US on deputation and I found folks with 12+ years experience doing coding - and I DID notice a difference in the quality of deliverables.
The problem is that once a person accumulates enough experience to achieve a good quality of code, he is made a manager. So effectively all learnings are lost. And the poor folks who are passionate about technology are made to work under the so-called PMs who became a PM because they were inept at coding. Strange !!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi </p>
<p>I fully support Basab&#8217;s observations. I have 8+ years of experience ( 5.5 with one of the SWITCH ( Satyam,Wipro,Infy,TCS,Cognizant,HCL)  and 3 with an MNC. In SWITCH when I was a fresher our leads with 3+ years of experience were asked to do &#8220;management&#8221; not &#8220;coding&#8221; - it is a different story that those clowns were absolutely inept. In fact we asked our Lead to help with coding and he baltanly refused to help us out. So - the entire project was coded by freshers - and this reflected on the quality of the deliverables.<br />
In MNC - my team of 20 had 1 Lead with 6+ years and 1f freshers. Again the quality of the deliverables suffered.<br />
But things were better than SWITCH and technical competency was appreciated. Now I am in US on deputation and I found folks with 12+ years experience doing coding - and I DID notice a difference in the quality of deliverables.<br />
The problem is that once a person accumulates enough experience to achieve a good quality of code, he is made a manager. So effectively all learnings are lost. And the poor folks who are passionate about technology are made to work under the so-called PMs who became a PM because they were inept at coding. Strange !!!</p>
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		<title>By: Deepak</title>
		<link>http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-7721</link>
		<dc:creator>Deepak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-7721</guid>
		<description>Hi
This is nice discussion and worthwhile on how Indian compainies are forcing its senior folks to get on to management.

But in most cases ,the person ends up in dealing with some sort of resource management only...

What would be better is to have remove those day to day activities from PM bucket and have him spent more time in technical work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi<br />
This is nice discussion and worthwhile on how Indian compainies are forcing its senior folks to get on to management.</p>
<p>But in most cases ,the person ends up in dealing with some sort of resource management only&#8230;</p>
<p>What would be better is to have remove those day to day activities from PM bucket and have him spent more time in technical work.</p>
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		<title>By: RB</title>
		<link>http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-6775</link>
		<dc:creator>RB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 19:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-6775</guid>
		<description>I dont know how much you can stretch the following arguments :
- that rapid growth is best addressed by increasing the span of control
- Project managers (senior delivery supervisors ?) will be harder to backfill on attrition than junior staff

One of the things i found studying offshoring trends (the focus of my Masters degree) is that many PMs dont go on to become the next generation of leaders in the IT services company.

This creates a bottleneck at senior-top management transitions on two counts.

1. The PMs 'freeze' in the IT services industry when they touch 14-16 years of experience. and they block the growth prospects of PMs below them in the pyramid

2. The leadership pipeline in the company starts to look fragile. and rightfully so ? When you see your Senior PMs lacking skills in the areas of risk mgmt, change mgmt, portfolio mgmt, strategic planning, talent management, conflict management, marketing, deal management, customer engagement.....why would you (as a shareholder or customer or employee) trust the future of your organisation to such a generalist - who has merely walked the trail of increased span of control ?

Taking the argument further, the time when there will be a surplus of middle-senior PMs in the market is not far away !

This would, hopefully, act as a counter-weight to the early-promotion-to-PM model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont know how much you can stretch the following arguments :<br />
- that rapid growth is best addressed by increasing the span of control<br />
- Project managers (senior delivery supervisors ?) will be harder to backfill on attrition than junior staff</p>
<p>One of the things i found studying offshoring trends (the focus of my Masters degree) is that many PMs dont go on to become the next generation of leaders in the IT services company.</p>
<p>This creates a bottleneck at senior-top management transitions on two counts.</p>
<p>1. The PMs &#8216;freeze&#8217; in the IT services industry when they touch 14-16 years of experience. and they block the growth prospects of PMs below them in the pyramid</p>
<p>2. The leadership pipeline in the company starts to look fragile. and rightfully so ? When you see your Senior PMs lacking skills in the areas of risk mgmt, change mgmt, portfolio mgmt, strategic planning, talent management, conflict management, marketing, deal management, customer engagement&#8230;..why would you (as a shareholder or customer or employee) trust the future of your organisation to such a generalist - who has merely walked the trail of increased span of control ?</p>
<p>Taking the argument further, the time when there will be a surplus of middle-senior PMs in the market is not far away !</p>
<p>This would, hopefully, act as a counter-weight to the early-promotion-to-PM model.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunita Mohanty</title>
		<link>http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5696</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunita Mohanty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 06:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5696</guid>
		<description>I have a PoV on this. Why are more Indians averse to coding in India? Where as we have a very strong set of technical competency retained by senior folks across the world, especially US....
This can be attributed to an existing perception existing in our IT world. We have no clear career path for a resource who wants to retain his competency in technology...have organizations groomed people into technical architect roles? Have organizatiosn enabled knowledge sharing and forums to enable technical growth of an individuial?...In most India software companies "growth" is synonymous" to "people management", and this detroys the urge of an individual to retain his technical competency. Everyone wants a promotion, and money and that comes by being a generalist and not a specialist!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a PoV on this. Why are more Indians averse to coding in India? Where as we have a very strong set of technical competency retained by senior folks across the world, especially US&#8230;.<br />
This can be attributed to an existing perception existing in our IT world. We have no clear career path for a resource who wants to retain his competency in technology&#8230;have organizations groomed people into technical architect roles? Have organizatiosn enabled knowledge sharing and forums to enable technical growth of an individuial?&#8230;In most India software companies &#8220;growth&#8221; is synonymous&#8221; to &#8220;people management&#8221;, and this detroys the urge of an individual to retain his technical competency. Everyone wants a promotion, and money and that comes by being a generalist and not a specialist!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Biswajit</title>
		<link>http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5522</link>
		<dc:creator>Biswajit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5522</guid>
		<description>Hi Basab,

I read this post of yours now and found some of the points interesting. I have worked for about 5.5 years (with TCS and Infy) before I decided to pursue my MBA and here is my take on your post:

First, the techies in the Silicon Valley usually work on  products. The IT companies in India follow a service oriented industry. The work involves some “original creation” but most of it is usually enhancements or modifications. You are one of the key persons behind this off shoring industry and am sure you’ll agree with me on this. 

Second, not all the freshers joining the Indian IT firms have a computer science background. Folks from different streams of engineering join these IT organizations. Yes, they all are recruited after an aptitude test but this does not check if they have the technical competency. They lack the basic fundamentals. Some of them usually move out of the organization within the next 2 years and those who decide to stick to the organization feel that the PM role is the easy way out for them. They choose to be business analyst understanding client requirements, or become a onsite co-coordinator and feel that the PM rule suits them.

Third, I personally feel that we lack role models – Folks who have made it big and are yet passionate about technology (or coding).Bill Gates still loves programming. I was always impressed when a Group Leader at our firm (somebody with 10-12 years of experience) would ask me the technical details as well as the deliverable details.

My verdict is clear. In the Indian IT circuit, a technical person with project management skills will be a better role model for his subordinates than a person who is a PMP certified and does not have good tech skills. This is based on my experience and observations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Basab,</p>
<p>I read this post of yours now and found some of the points interesting. I have worked for about 5.5 years (with TCS and Infy) before I decided to pursue my MBA and here is my take on your post:</p>
<p>First, the techies in the Silicon Valley usually work on  products. The IT companies in India follow a service oriented industry. The work involves some “original creation” but most of it is usually enhancements or modifications. You are one of the key persons behind this off shoring industry and am sure you’ll agree with me on this. </p>
<p>Second, not all the freshers joining the Indian IT firms have a computer science background. Folks from different streams of engineering join these IT organizations. Yes, they all are recruited after an aptitude test but this does not check if they have the technical competency. They lack the basic fundamentals. Some of them usually move out of the organization within the next 2 years and those who decide to stick to the organization feel that the PM role is the easy way out for them. They choose to be business analyst understanding client requirements, or become a onsite co-coordinator and feel that the PM rule suits them.</p>
<p>Third, I personally feel that we lack role models – Folks who have made it big and are yet passionate about technology (or coding).Bill Gates still loves programming. I was always impressed when a Group Leader at our firm (somebody with 10-12 years of experience) would ask me the technical details as well as the deliverable details.</p>
<p>My verdict is clear. In the Indian IT circuit, a technical person with project management skills will be a better role model for his subordinates than a person who is a PMP certified and does not have good tech skills. This is based on my experience and observations.</p>
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		<title>By: Manish</title>
		<link>http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5476</link>
		<dc:creator>Manish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5476</guid>
		<description>Basab, this is a common problem across all IT service providers. I guess its also because the IT skills have been commoditized to such an extent that people don't think that its worthwhile for any individual to get expertize in a specific skillset. Most of the work can be done by an entry level developers and doesn't require an expertise of 10 yrs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basab, this is a common problem across all IT service providers. I guess its also because the IT skills have been commoditized to such an extent that people don&#8217;t think that its worthwhile for any individual to get expertize in a specific skillset. Most of the work can be done by an entry level developers and doesn&#8217;t require an expertise of 10 yrs.</p>
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		<title>By: 6 AM Pacific &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Tale of Two Techies</title>
		<link>http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5408</link>
		<dc:creator>6 AM Pacific &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Tale of Two Techies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 02:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5408</guid>
		<description>[...] Comments Rosen Sharma on Runaway CEO compensationSurya on Where are All the Senior Developers in India?Anuradha on Where are All the Senior Developers in India?Sandip on Where are All the Senior Developers in India?Harsha Gurumurthy on Land Acquisition: Big Hurdle for Indian Manufacturing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Comments Rosen Sharma on Runaway CEO compensationSurya on Where are All the Senior Developers in India?Anuradha on Where are All the Senior Developers in India?Sandip on Where are All the Senior Developers in India?Harsha Gurumurthy on Land Acquisition: Big Hurdle for Indian Manufacturing [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Surya</title>
		<link>http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5402</link>
		<dc:creator>Surya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 18:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5402</guid>
		<description>I worked with product companies for 7 years in US /India developing device drivers. The Indian gene woke up and said "what next"? To make the most impact it became neccesary for me to go back to school @ IIM after belling the feline creature.

Pride might be a more subtle driver than money so I disagree with Sandip's monetization of management.  what's the use if that person is not making maximal impact on product development. Infy is spending a lot when it comes to training but can it train managers better than the IIM's. Not true, else infy would'nt be recruiting from IIM's but rather would be turning on the assembly line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I worked with product companies for 7 years in US /India developing device drivers. The Indian gene woke up and said &#8220;what next&#8221;? To make the most impact it became neccesary for me to go back to school @ IIM after belling the feline creature.</p>
<p>Pride might be a more subtle driver than money so I disagree with Sandip&#8217;s monetization of management.  what&#8217;s the use if that person is not making maximal impact on product development. Infy is spending a lot when it comes to training but can it train managers better than the IIM&#8217;s. Not true, else infy would&#8217;nt be recruiting from IIM&#8217;s but rather would be turning on the assembly line.</p>
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		<title>By: Anuradha</title>
		<link>http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5396</link>
		<dc:creator>Anuradha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 11:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5396</guid>
		<description>I think there is another problem that Indian IT compnaies will have to soon deal with and that is making everyone a generalist, expectng that any new work is to be done by people on the bench, or any work that would fall in the category of 'Investment' is to be done by people on bench irrespective of the skills required to that work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is another problem that Indian IT compnaies will have to soon deal with and that is making everyone a generalist, expectng that any new work is to be done by people on the bench, or any work that would fall in the category of &#8216;Investment&#8217; is to be done by people on bench irrespective of the skills required to that work.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandip</title>
		<link>http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5391</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://6ampacific.com/2007/01/28/where-are-all-the-senior-developers-in-india/#comment-5391</guid>
		<description>At 5 years of Work Experience expected payout in terms of Salary will be 15 lacs+ min for a genuine quality work ex folk. Indian Outsourcing companies likes Infy, TCS, Satyam, Wirpo are not willin got invest that kind of money... so the situation is self expalnatory... u get not so "great work" n are paid peanuts.. hence the reason.
Thus in my comapny i have project managers who are 18 years of work exp and get paid 40 lacs per annum...

Outsourcing companies lke the Big 4 , dont have quality work n hence there is not reason for such highly exp resourses...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At 5 years of Work Experience expected payout in terms of Salary will be 15 lacs+ min for a genuine quality work ex folk. Indian Outsourcing companies likes Infy, TCS, Satyam, Wirpo are not willin got invest that kind of money&#8230; so the situation is self expalnatory&#8230; u get not so &#8220;great work&#8221; n are paid peanuts.. hence the reason.<br />
Thus in my comapny i have project managers who are 18 years of work exp and get paid 40 lacs per annum&#8230;</p>
<p>Outsourcing companies lke the Big 4 , dont have quality work n hence there is not reason for such highly exp resourses&#8230;</p>
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